Mobility Innovators

Danielle Walsh ([00:00:00]):

What we’re actually doing with the carbon credit is that it’s a transfer of, I am generating a project that’s either going to remove carbon emissions or avoid carbon emissions. The avoiding carbon emissions could be that there is a new ream of an energy upgrade or a charging infrastructure, of which if I go alone, I’m just not going to fund it. If I try to share that with others in the supply chain, will still speed up the electrification of that particular area. What I need to do then is I need to see, if I go ahead with that particular project, let’s keep it as charging infrastructure. What is going to be the implication of emissions avoided from that project? Now, to do that, you first need to assess what is the status quo. So the status quo is effectively a contextual baseline of emissions of what we are moving around and what we’re going to be avoiding in the future.

Yeah, it’s very different to move you around in Hong Kong based on you in the context of moving you the vehicle you’re using, and of course, the city. And then the second one is to moving a bottle of water around in London. Again, it’s product, it’s a new city, is a different vehicle. So there you have to have a contextual baseline. And what we are doing in Clearly is it’s taking averages from traffic controls, anonymized averages from our customers to provide a very rich version of what is the contextual baseline of that particular city project or vehicle.

MIL ([00:01:30]):

Welcome to the Mobility Innovators Podcast.

Jaspal Singh ([00:01:36]):

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Mobility Innovator Podcast. I’m your host, Jaspal Singh.  Mobility Innovator Podcast invites key innovators in the transportation and logistics sector to share their experience and feature forecast. In this episode, we’ll be discussing the role of AI in planning energy transition for fleet operators.

Our today guest is a co-founder and CEO, Clearly a startup base in the UK, which helped the global transportation sector to reach net zero mission. It used AI together combine, enhance data across the supply chain so company know exactly where the most emissions are coming from in the fleet. Easily access optimal project to reduce emission and automate the excess of shared and cheaper financing. The company’s operating in a CD across the world and has more than 50,000 a set under contract and has tracked over a hundred million clips. Prior to founding her venture, she was a director in TMT investment banking at HSBC and LED technology for future city and new initiative. I’m so happy to welcome Danielle Walsh, co-founder and CEO, Clearly.

It’s now time to listen.

Jaspal Singh ([00:02:45]):

Hello Danielle. I’m so happy to have you on the podcast. I’m really looking forward to our discussion, the topic of energy transition on everybody’s mind. It’s a topic which everybody’s talking about.

So let’s kickstart our discussion with your personal journey in the energy transition space. And it was very interesting because when I saw your LinkedIn profile, I saw you started your career in law in Argentina, and then you enter investment banking in London for mining and later technology. So it’s a good transition from law to mining to technology.

But the interesting thing you did when you join as a chief of staff for the head of banking for Europe, where you define the strategy for a $17 billion innovation spend, which is amazing. And during your 1.5 year tenure at HSBC, you spoke to C-suites for companies across the supply chain globally, and saw the disruption coming from technology and sustainability.

So, which is a good sign. Like you understand, you read and you analyze those upcoming trend, and then you took a hard decision of quitting your job and launching your own venture, and taking a entrepreneurial plunge and started Clearly. So can you share a little more about your professional and entrepreneurial journey, because it’s so amazing to see how you transition from different careers and different geographies, and any interesting fact about your career that is not on LinkedIn because it’s quite detailed, but I still interested to know something you’re hiding.

Danielle Walsh ([00:04:10]):

Sure. thank you for the introduction. Yeah, I think start, maybe the last part, the things on LinkedIn. Probably two things. So I actually started my career in a way on the racetracks. Because my family have been into Motorsport, they end up building a team from cadets through to Ford Formula III Reno. So yeah, from the age of 11 to I guess university, I was spending my weekends there. What I learned really was a mix of engineering how an industry works how a product is solved. Because obviously in the end this is a product. And of course, from the team itself high performing sport really is around discipline, commitment and doing whatever it takes to win. I think from there, I still kept a love today to a good today.

Danielle Walsh ([00:05:04]):

And then the second thing is that’s more on there is after studying lo I actually took myself on a self-proclaimed road to art dealing, which actually brought me to Argentina. And there really obviously was the art of deal making, and the real need to hustle. And I guess on the entrepreneurial side it’s definitely been an interesting journey. I left a very well-oiled blue-chip bank where perfectionism is congratulated and really into the wild west of a DIY mode. As an entrepreneur, you have to learn how to keep the lights on, and obviously you are turning the lights on at the end of the day, so you really, you cover everything. So that’s been, the transition has been it’s been definitely an interesting one.

Jaspal Singh ([00:05:51]):

Amazing, that’s great to know that you were on the racetrack and, and from racetrack now on a different racetrack, which is entrepreneurial racetrack. So now let’s talk about your venture because I was very curious when I did some more analysis about Clearly, first of all, the name is very interesting why you call it Clearly recently your startup is selected as top 10 European startup in mobility. So congratulations for that. It’s a big achievement because there were more than 700 applicants. So, all those applicants were one of the best from Europe and getting selected out of 700 applicants. It’s really amazing. So I’m curious to know what does Clearly do and what motivate you to launch startup and energy transition space? Why you thought this area you need to solve this problem?

Danielle Walsh ([00:06:39]):

Sure. I mean, for me it was a complete no brainer. When I was in in my prior role, I had the privilege of working with blue chip leaders globally on identifying the exact issues that we’re doing now. So I work with firsthand with the C-suites in sustainability innovation space. And, and there I saw the, the enormous challenge that climate tech is addressing and also how a technology like the one we are developing can make an enormous contribution to reaching the goal. And within that space, transportation really is the biggest and the most relevant lever on the world’s path to net zero. In terms of what we do we now know the world is moving to net zero and the entire transportation industry is at the forefront of these efforts.

Danielle Walsh ([00:07:33]):

Clearly is providing a technology that allows these global leaders to achieve these goals whilst helping them to significantly reduce OPEX enhance their ability to make strategic decisions and lower the cost of financing. And what I mean by that, practically speaking, is that we are giving them the tools to manage the energy transition for their fleets provide them with data to actually guide their investment decisions and then put them in decision where they can actually benefit from the whole raft of green financing options out there. The savings for large companies we’re making is running into the hundreds of millions, so it’s not a small affair.

Jaspal Singh ([00:08:13]):

Amazing. You mentioned a couple of good points, you said you are helping them to reduce their OPEX. Everybody wants to do that, and you said you helping them to reduce their cost of financing and making much more sustainable and efficient for them. So, which is amazing, I think all the CEO or CIO must have love you because of reducing their cost and increasing efficiency of their system. Something which you mentioned very important, the data. So you’re helping these agencies to manage the data using the data, and they can manage the energy transition. And I think data driven insight will definitely play a key role in this energy transition strategy. You collect data from different multiple sources, including GPS, vehicle level, fuel energy level, and you blend them together to calculate the result. But the biggest challenge is do you get the quality data from the clients? And can you also explain a little bit about how data integration work and insight it provides to your customer, how they can use these insight to better manage their resources?

Danielle Walsh ([00:09:16]):

Sure, sure. Well, as you already highlighted, one of the core problems is that the data is fragmented. So, we play a critical role when it’s integrating the available data and then complementing with other sources. So, we use our property AI engine to derive our insights. So, our model helps to achieve the insights by significantly more accurate than traditional methods and as you can see, we are performing an important task that companies standalone can just not achieve. I think it’s probably better by actually giving an example. So, if I’m logistics provider X, what we do is we pull the data from the type of truck the load factor of the truck, the type of goods, the customer of the goods, et cetera. Then what we’re doing is we’re combining that information from the telematics systems in terms of where the vehicle is moving and the performance of the vehicle.

Danielle Walsh ([00:10:08]):

And then finally what we’re doing is we’re enhancing that data by adding data to the mix in terms of the situational relevant data. Now that could be weather data, it could be traffic data, local or global regulatory data, et cetera. And once you are gathering and then fusing and enhancing it, our client is able to, for instance, manage its fleet in a much more sophisticated manner. This is what obviously is helping to reduce cost. The second one is importantly ensuring regulatory compliance and then making more better-informed decisions on asset deployment central for reaching net zero. And really without our technology, they are literally running blind. They spend a lot of time or money on measures that are ultimately not effective. They can’t, when you can’t measure something, you can’t effectively implement it. So they invest in measures that they don’t know will work. It’s a bit of guesswork, and up until now, this was okay, but going forward, the requirements from various stakeholders, the pressure is coming from governments, from customers, from investors, from employees, in fact also the providers are financing, which is key. This is going to be significantly higher. So, there’s no way they can meet their net zero goals, but our help.

Jaspal Singh ([00:11:30]):

Yeah,  think something you mentioned very important. If you can’t measure it, you cannot correct it. So the first thing is how you can measure it.

And I think one of the biggest challenges we are facing right now is that the climate change is real. It’s here. We saw the July was one of the recorded hottest months in our history, and we recorded three days of record hottest days, so one by one. So, it’s there. Climate change is creating a lot of impact, and I think the transportation play a real role because 25% of our total CO₂ emission is coming from transportation. And I would say major part of it from the logistics side, I just want to understand how you are helping some of these clients to achieve their emission target. Because you’re right, you mentioned there is a lot of pressure on these players now, not only from external forces from comment and policymaker, but also internal, the employee also wants to achieve this net carbon. So can you share some of the, some detailed example of how you are helping clients across different geographies to achieve their sustainability efforts? And I also know you, you have achieved some big major breakthrough with one of the clients recently. So, if you want to share a little bit about that.

Danielle Walsh ([00:12:40]):

Thank you. Yes, just before this call we just signed an annual contract with one of the biggest logistics provider globally. So we’re, we’re very happy.

Jaspal Singh ([00:12:49]):

Amazing. Congratulations for that,

Danielle Walsh ([00:12:51]):

Thank you so much. With that, I mean, so one example previous to the signing, of course, is on the penalties and ensuring operational continuity. So now what’s going on in many cities globally is that strict emission re regulations is established to curb. Of course, the environmental pollution non-compliance is leading to substantial penalties. They’re not small. So, for example, in London, it can be up to 2000 pounds a day, depending on the type of vehicle. And in the US, it’s ranging from anywhere between 150 pounds a day to up to 10,000 pounds, again, depending on the location of the vehicle type. And in certain cases, there’s a risk of the vehicles actually being removed from the road. So, it’s literally causing operational damage. So, we ran a trip level analysis on six months of data for a client in the US and the exposure of future restrictions on one state alone, which was California.

Danielle Walsh ([00:13:47]):

And we found that our about after four millions of trips, or rather out 4 million trips, 860 were exposed to this new low emission zone. And then once you were applying the lower end of penalties, this amounted to 74 million in fines. So not a small figure for this one. So there of course, because again, you are blending where the assets are registered, where they’re actually moving, and then what’s inside the vehicle in terms of weight, you combine that and you overlay the future restriction, which was obviously the low emission zone. That’s where you expose. And then we help that client to then future plan before it comes into effect, avoid those penalties, ensure a continuation of obviously the operations. So that was one success factor in terms of going beyond not just the reporting, that is a hurdle, but also here around just the operational management from, from restrictions.

Danielle Walsh ([00:14:42]):

The second one was in decarbonization, and this was more focused in Europe. So here it was really around, again, assessing the targeted reduction. What they’ve first got to do is identify a candidate site. So if I am I’m either looking at a country, a region, of course, global operations, look at the sites, and at the moment what customers are doing is they’re taking a rather manual view here, it’s digitized view to actually look at hotspots around where I really should focus my attention. Then going deeper in terms of, okay, if it is hot, what is driving? Why is it hot? Is it the asset? Is it the type of operation? Is it empty trips of course. And logistics, you know, to 45% of trips in the US are actually empty, so how can we expose where to focus? And then giving actual insights to state, if you take this action, you’re going to remove emissions by a certain factor.

Danielle Walsh ([00:15:38]):

So really it’s allowing for companies to digitize the process and speed up the number of options of which they can assess to make sometimes a very low hanging fruit which is cost effective of reaching net zero goals. Here is obviously around going ahead also with certain projects that may appear to be costly, but once again, you are automating the process of, I’ve identified a project, and then you have many grants and tax rebates that are up for grabs. But when you can automate that in what on face value seems to be too expensive and not a high enough ROI, once you’ve modeled that in, you obviously are allowing people to go that set further and actually take on the project that actually this ROI is much more fruitful than we thought. So I think that that’s not only allowing the customer to move faster, that’s also allowing the supplier to move faster.

Danielle Walsh ([00:16:36]):

Yeah. Because what the suppliers are doing is they are, I mean, even from a tire company where they’re creating more costly, I say costly in terms of price of a tire, but the energy saving is fantastic. They can assess it in the lab, they can’t then map that n terms of what would be the percentage of reduction for the actual fleet. So, both parties are winning. That’s the same for a fleet. And what else is required in terms of the infrastructure in place, the energy in place or it could just be an operating system. In terms of managing your fleet in a better way. And on that one point in terms of the charging infrastructure, because obviously that’s a big hurdle for many.

So third example, which is actually in Asia, we are now at the final stages of generating carbon insets. So carbon insets is where you, it’s effectively a carbon credit that you trade within the supply chain. And here we are only going to high quality data-driven credits where you can assess what is the current status quo, a data-driven approach to simulate the reduction, and then a data approach to validate that reduction. And by doing that, what we allow for a customer in Asia is to roll out electric vehicles a lot quicker than we would’ve done because the cost of the supporting infrastructure. That’s what carries the credit.

Jaspal Singh ([00:17:55]):

Amazing. I mean, all three examples are quite interesting, and it was very shocking when you said 74 million penalty they can have by just not optimizing their fleet and, and moving the reset to low emission zone area, and then 45% trucks are empty. That’s very interesting. And how you can optimize, how you can perform much better. And I think what you said, it has a ripple effect. So if the operator start behaving better and save money, they can also share that revenue or profit with the supplier and the supplier will getting interesting, better. Like you mentioned the entire example, and I fully agree with you, it’s kind of a multiplier effect somewhere. It needs to start. And I think what you guys are doing, you’re helping operators to get more efficient so that they can work more efficiently with their supplier.

Jaspal Singh ([00:18:42]):

So, interesting. Thank for sharing that. It’s very interesting to learn this example. Now, the biggest thing is what you mentioned about the operator. They are facing the challenge to replace their fleet, and it’s one of the bigger part of electrification, but there are many other thing, like you mentioned about how the trucks are empty, so you need to fill those trucks. So, there are a lot of these operational changes, resource planning, supply upgrade, the entire example you mentioned. So, you need to do a lot of these other thing as well to achieve the net zero goal. And, change management is not easy. Many organizations pale in this transition because they can’t able to change. Well, it’s require a lot of planning and a lot of data crunching, blending a lot of information together. So, would love to know what are some of the most significant challenges you’ve encountered in developing and working with the fleet operator, and how have you addressed them? Because it’s not easy when you start talking to them and say, guys, you need to change whatever you are doing in the last 50 years. And you to think from a different perspective. What were those conversations?

Danielle Walsh ([00:19:43]):

So yeah, I think what you mentioned is really around the resistance to change. So some may initially want to stick to internal Excel files or traditional consultants when really trying to plan and, and manage the change that they required in terms of effectively electrifying or changing systems. What we’ve seen is that some corporations may do it for the low hanging fruit, but then now what they’re seeing is once they’ve done that, it’s a strain to actually continue doing it in that manner. So it’s really trying to trying to provide the tool and just demonstrate the value. If you have the ease of identifying and costing out a certain project or automating a certain process, that in itself allows for certain customers to want to come on board. It is demonstrating food value effectively.

Danielle Walsh ([00:20:36]):

More broadly, I think that obviously just electrifying in itself what I’m hearing in the industry, not just from us, but also other suppliers, whether it’s, you know, from vehicles to the energy upgrades, the charging infrastructure many now are seeing that the resistance to changes is a lot lower, a lot longer, sorry. And you’re having to do a lot more handholding effectively. So again, it’s around trying to give the reassurance of two things. One, infrastructure and charging. Yeah. So range anxiety has been an issue for a very long time and the lack of, obviously adequate charging infrastructure is a common hurdle. What we’re doing there is obviously that’s a core proposition of Clearly is that by analyzing historical trips and overlaying the future requirements in terms of the energy required in the grid, the charging, the structure of a particular trip there, what you can do is you can do effective management where, as opposed to just going out and buying the vehicles blindly, you’ll then effectively managing to see, do I have everything else in place?

Danielle Walsh ([00:21:43]):

What’s the full cost here? And what’s the full saving? So that tool in itself is also overcoming a key hurdle in the system. And the second one is cost concerns. No one will ever tell you they don’t want to decarbonize their fleet. But many people will tell you we can’t because the cost is too high. So it there, it’s a case of if you can’t pass the cost to the customer, you can’t pass it to the supplier, you have to take it on yourself. Here it’s doing two things. One, it’s showing the upfront cost versus the longer-term cost. Now if you can map out the savings from energy, from efficiencies and operations, again that insight that they don’t currently have allows them to price it on the longer-term basis and not just the short term.

Danielle Walsh ([00:22:33]):

That’s one thing. And the second thing is by, again, if you accurately can simulate the emission reductions, this is where you can lower the cost even further, like I mentioned earlier. One is our get getting access to the grants and tax rebates from the, the country at hand and the project at hand. And the second one is then around innovative financing. Could be project financing where you share that cost with suppliers or customers. And the second one is then obviously on the carbon credit side. Yeah. So the cost concerns can be visibility of long term, which you can’t do at the moment without that quite data. And then obviously automation leads to cheaper capital or indeed free capital. I think a finer one is data management. Especially within transportation. I mean, data really is messy.

Danielle Walsh ([00:23:29]):

It’s complex, it’s scattered. And again, that has been our obsession from day one clearly. In fact, we didn’t actually go to market until the first year of how do we create a hardware and format agnostic system that has the ability to ingest very large amounts of data across these different areas. And as opposed to demand more from the customer, fill in the gaps by leveraging either internal data sets that we get by generating anonymized averages or from targeted public data as I mentioned earlier, from weather, from traffic et cetera. So really, it’s around making it easier. These companies are not data companies. They are performing a duty take the data processing side off their hands to allow them to get the visibility they need.

Jaspal Singh ([00:24:20]):

That’s a very valid point. You mentioned the data, like how the data will play an important role, and I think a lot of agencies are now comparing about the, like you mentioned about the short-term investment and long-term costs. So you need to make those comparisons. Most companies want to shift to cleaner fleet. There has no choice. Like you mentioned, there are penalties now, so they have to do it, but the capital cost is playing a big challenge. And actually electric because are still expensive because of the battery cost it’s coming down, but not yet at that level. So the cost initial cost is high, but I think that at the TCO level, things are getting better. So, TC level things are getting at a par. I would like to discuss more about what you mentioned about innovative funding method, alternative funding, and I think the carbon financing is one which you mentioned that dollar of companies now use with data, they can analyze, they can calculate their carbon offset and sell it.

Jaspal Singh ([00:25:14]):

And there is a big momentum, I would say, in voluntary carbon market these days. Lot of monies are making big money. With that example, Tesla being an expert, what is your perspective on carbon financing and how do you think it’s a different era now? Because now we have better technology? Because earlier there were a lot of fake projects, but now with the digital MRV technology, we have better visibility. And that’s what you are saying. It’s in DNA of clearly work with data, bring more transparency. So can you share a little bit of a perspective on the carbon market and how it’ll be useful for electric energy transmission?

Danielle Walsh ([00:25:51]):

I think rightly so, the market needs to remain cautious in the carbon market generally. But I personally see it as a tool that really can allow us to do the necessary thing of sharing risk and sharing return when we are transitioning our transportation. Which is a crucial need when it comes, especially within transport. So obviously you have two sides of the market within carbon markets. You have the regulatory one, and then you have the voluntary carbon markets. You’ve mentioned earlier that there was a lot of fraud and fake projects, which it was a fact of you had a greenwashing episode there was a lot of money that was coming into this, and there were some people that tried positively. Now we’re seeing there’s a lot more rigor in the market and a lot more requirements when it to the data exposure of the project at hand, which is going to be very pro positive of the market.

Danielle Walsh ([00:26:49]):

So in the case of what we are building, I can give an example is that in the prior world, it is that you file a project that states all the dimensions and you kind of tick a lot of boxes. There was no system that actually had to go and verify it. You didn’t need to have the actual data that backed it. You can just give some stats. You can list out the project and it would give an estimate in terms of the emission avoided or the emission reduced when you’re, obviously, when you’re providing carbon, let’s go back here. What we’re actually doing with the carbon credit is that it is a transfer of, I am generating a project that’s either going to remove carbon emissions or avoid carbon emissions. The avoiding carbon emissions could be that there is a new ream of an energy upgrade or a charging infrastructure of which if I go alone, I’m just not going to fund it.

Danielle Walsh ([00:27:43]):

If I try to share that with others in the supply chain, we’ll speed up the electrification of that particular area. What I need to do then is I need to see, okay, if I go ahead with that particular project, let’s keep it as charging infrastructure. What is going to be the implication of emissions avoided from that project? Now to do that, you first need to assess what is the status quo. So the status quo is effectively a contextual baseline of emissions of what we are moving around and what we’re going to be avoiding in the future. It’s very different to move you around in Hong Kong based on you in the context of moving you the vehicle you’re using, and of course the city. And then the second one is to move a bottle of water around in London. Again, it’s product, it’s a new city, it’s a different vehicle.

Danielle Walsh ([00:28:31]):

So there you have to have a contextual baseline. And what we’re doing in clearly is it’s taking averages from traffic controls, anonymized averages from our customers to provide a very rich version of what is the contextual baseline of that particular city project or vehicle. Then what you’re doing is you’re taking the project at hand and you’re looking at the number of vehicles and the historical trips that they’ve actually done, and you are then simulating on a most accurate version. You can do what would be the savings from the particular project. Once you have that, you file that, but then it doesn’t stop there. You then need to be giving a snapshot of data on a periodic basis post the filing of the project, and that confirmation of the reduction, that’s what is actually going into the savings of what you are funding as a corporate.

Danielle Walsh ([00:29:24]):

Now, that’s a data-driven high-quality credit, where effectively you are sharing risk. It’s not the case of I have a project where I have 10,000 trees and you are supporting this. Actually what you find is if you hover over, there’s nothing there. That was the old world. If we keep with this rigor in the new world, this is a means of really a positive means of sharing the risk and sharing the return. Now, there are other things of ways of doing it as well. What we’re doing, we’ve got research, and we are now testing the distributed ledger blockchain technology to take a step further in terms of that transparency. And blockchain can be used for two reasons. One, it can be on the traceability of the project. So as I mentioned earlier in terms of what was the baseline, what, how did you actually simulate, and then how did you then recognize and verify your simulations.

Danielle Walsh ([00:30:18]):

And the second one then can obviously be the exchange of the credit per se. Now, you can go beyond the restrictions that may be provided between countries because of course, if you can trade across countries, it’s much better in terms of liquidity by reflecting within a credit the project to a particular credit on the blockchain. That’s when you then also have traceability of where it’s being placed in hands, where it started, the cost of actually transferring it, et cetera. So it is providing visibility that what people need, and they can tap in at any point to see really what’s going on in the process.

Jaspal Singh ([00:30:54]):

Yeah, and I think what you mentioned it’s very important to have a good transparent data and information, and each city is very different. So, a mile save in California is very different from mile save, let’s say in Hong Kong because the energy source is very different. The pattern is very different, and the traffic jam and traffic condition is very different. So, I think it’s very important to go to the trip level and glad to hear with so much technology input, you can bring that kind of a transparency and you’re using the blockchain. I’m hearing blockchain after a long time now, because people are not talking about it. It’s a wonderful technology. I think everybody’s now busy with Generative AI, but good you are I implementing this distribution distributed ledger in the project and making sure that the data is accurate and people can have a traceability.

Jaspal Singh ([00:31:47]):

So great. Thank you for sharing that. It’s very interesting. I’m very bullish about this whole voluntary carbon market ecosystem, and I think it’ll grow from here because like you said, sharing the risk and sharing investment, that’s that should be the motto of different project. Now, when you say about sharing risk and sharing investment, one of the key challenge for energy transition is which sector should be more clean first, which sector should reach net zero first? We see there is a big push for public transportation. So there is a lot of cities which are making their public transportation fleet cleaner, and they’re looking for electric and hydrogen kind of a fleet. But at the same time, there is a big logistics sector. We know the logistics sector is so big. I was reading some data that in 2020, 15 billion packages are delivered worldwide. So, 8 billion population, 15 billion packages. So it’s huge number according to you, which sector should take this load? Whether it should be public transportation, or you feel it’s the private transportation? And which one should be the first one to adopt a clean fleet?

Danielle Walsh ([00:32:57]):

I’m going to give a very political answer and say it read the case. You know, you may have one city that is very reliant or has a very high distribution of what we call naughty public transportation because of diesel in fueled, and you may have another city that actually is the complete reverse. I think it’s a spread. I do believe that on obviously the logistics side, it’s a huge issue because of course, what we have globally across all forms of transportation is a supply chain issue and a supply issue itself, whether it’s batteries, whether it’s vehicles, whether it’s a charging infrastructure, we need to know that this transition is not going to be overnight. And that’s why we need to have many more variables in how we can reduce in terms of who should take the load? Everyone, it can’t be one. We need a fundamental transition on whether we move ourselves around or whether removing the products that we need or want around. And that needs to be a step up. And this unprecedented level of collaboration between the public sector and the private sector, and of course, technology and data transparency are a way of doing this.

Jaspal Singh ([00:34:09]):

I agree with you. It’s everyone. And like you said it’s really depend on the city. If some city, the emission level is high, they are the first one should go. And if some cities are already cleaner and their emissions levels are low, probably they don’t need to prioritize that much because there are a lot of other issues supply chain and, and they should get priority where there is more problem rather than trying to solving thing, which is not a big problem. So I agree with you. Everybody needs to take a load. Just follow on that point. Let everybody need to take a load, like clearly is, I would say one of the amazing startups, because even at this stage, you’re already working in eight countries on three different continents, which is amazing. The from day one year global and being global, one of the advantages, you work with different regulatory environment, you work with different policymaker. What are the policies and regulatory initiative you feel is required to make energy transition possible? Because you’re seeing three different continents, you see some best cases and you also see some worst cases. So, what do you think the policymakers should do to make energy transition smoother and faster?

Danielle Walsh ([00:35:18]):

I think obviously starting here in Europe’s really done a, well, it initially led the way at the European Green Deal comprehensive framework. Obviously, it’s promoting sustainable growth and facilitating it. So it’s the ambitious goals of carbon neutrality green finance and many mechanisms are coming into place, whether it’s that now banks or investors are pulling back when it comes to projects that are not demonstrating a sustainable element or goal. But also then providing cheaper financing by the positive projects that are out there. Sustainability standards and really trying to I mean last week I was in Brussels and really I saw the push of countries working together to provide the frameworks needed and the clarity needed to actually then work together to really expose our emissions and then reduce our emissions.

Danielle Walsh ([00:36:15]):

And then within that, of course, providing the grants and the incentives a company to really adopt this is the carrot. You know, if you are there are certain initiatives of having an easier time within a city that’s Norway and being able to drive on certain lanes all the way through then to providing certain incentives to make that upfront cost a bit more bearable and see the longevity in terms of the positive aspects. The US really surprised us though. The recent enacted inflation act was fantastic for the country and of course for our business, and anyone that has this goal. And it’s not just focusing on the financing of clean energy, but also obviously the projects at hand and the significant, the real significance in terms of tax rebates and the grants.

 

Danielle Walsh ([00:37:05]):

That’s really encouraging the shift. In fact, you now have companies that are having a whole department that are focusing on identifying a project and then attaching on what it really is up for grads in terms of that tax and grant rebate, which before it would be a case of it’s so minor that it doesn’t really matter. So that was a real shift. And within that, we’re then having other states that having a massive step up in terms of those low emission zones that you’re seeing also previously reflected in Europe is also now coming to the states. I think that go going beyond the regulatory side, because I obviously get that question a lot is what about, you know, the smaller suppliers? Yeah. They haven’t got that regulatory burden then, you know, are they your customer? Well, in fact, I think that where we’re on a benefit here is that this really is a global initiative.

Danielle Walsh ([00:37:55]):

So regulation aside, what you are having is that the large companies now, if you’re, especially if you’re a public company, you are having the pressure to say, when are you releasing your net zero target? And the second that you have a net zero target out there, you then have to expose it and show how you are meeting it. Now, if you are a larger player, let’s say you’re a large retailer, going back to your 159 billion packages. Instead of moving every year that’s the case where if I am that retailer and I have 300,000 different carriers, one of the carriers is a fleet of five vehicles. It may as well be regulated because my customer, the retailer is demanding that I do act in the way that’s going to help them. I’m either going to be saving energy, I’m promoting that I am meeting their goals.

Danielle Walsh ([00:38:46]):

So it’s no matter what country I’m in, then I’m exposed to this private side push of a regulatory structure that says, tell me what your emissions are to me and tell me how you’re reducing them. So this really, the reason why clearly can be global from day one is it’s a global push with a global framework within our world. It’s called G Lex. So it’s a company’s coming from the world to say, how do we actually enact this scope three supply chain emissions? How can we reduce, how can we share the cost of capital? What are the certain innovations out there that we can actually promote and encourage? So I think that, you know, we are really benefiting from these global regulations and frameworks on the mandate of scope three supply chain, which is the largest amount of emissions.

Danielle Walsh ([00:39:33]):

And then the compelling feedback and actions that are coming from companies. And I think really the final one is if you’re working at the negative side, then of course there are some ineffective policies out there. You’ve obviously got a lack of clear targets. Still, we are not there yet. Of course we are not. What I’m seeing is that when it’s not coming from either the frameworks that we all are striving to tick, the PS for private side, now going beyond. So we are working with very large companies and we are coming together to show that through technology, you can go beyond the framework. So one example in one of the frameworks, I won’t mention which when we are speaking on the inefficiencies, but it mentions around, we can measure on the route level, which is obviously a planned trip.

Danielle Walsh ([00:40:27]):

You really need to go to the actual trip because the discrepancy between the two is too vast. Now, on the private side between technology and obviously the industry, we can demonstrate that that is possible and we can demonstrate the benefits of doing it, and we can demonstrate the benefits not only in terms of exposing the correct data to avoiding greenwashing, but the amount of innovation you can do from the savings of those empty trips, which is energy, which is cost, which obviously goes in the bottom line. So I think that, you know, whilst there can still be an ongoing lack of clear targets, we are then seeing the private side step up. And we are seeing that the regulators and the bodies that are set in those frameworks are still working very closely with the private sector, which I didn’t see as much of in my prior years when I was working in banking.

Danielle Walsh ([00:41:16]):

And I think that really what we need to do is step up here is that we’re, you’re saying in, I mean, Europe obviously of course public awareness and engagement is very large. Yeah. That’s not global. And I think there still needs to be an ongoing push when implementing that. One of the countries we’re working in actually is Thailand, where public awareness of sustainability is not as high as what we see in Europe. There you can provide certain additional carrots and that’s of course in terms of incentives and schemes on the private side as well as the public side.

Jaspal Singh ([00:41:46]):

All these are great point. And I think the point you mentioned, which I fully agree with you because I was working with some of the big company and I saw they have a lot of public pressure in their home country to be net zero, not only in their home country, but any other country they’re working with. So given the example of big retailer or big logistic company, they can’t pick cherry pick one country or the, they have to do, they have to achieve the net zero mission in all the countries. So there is big push coming from the private sector and also some country, their regulatory framework is much better. They have set up a clear net zero goal and they want to achieve it. So I think the mix of this public and private initiative is creating a big impact.

Jaspal Singh ([00:42:27]):

And I agree with you, there is a lot of awareness required at the public side to create, and move toward energy transition. And I think it’s good for earth. We have no other choice but to move towards cleaner, cleaner energy and we have to switch to better future. Otherwise, we have only one earth. I was telling my kids we have only one earth. There is nothing like earth. So we can’t move away now. Thank you so much Daniel, to share you know, a lot of these insight about the energy transition and technical side of how things work at clearly. Now I want to discuss about your entrepreneurial side because building companies not easy. It’s not about product, it’s about people. So you launched your venture in 2021, so already you are in like 2-3 years in the business. How’s your journey so far? Can you share some important lesson learned in your entrepreneurial journey so far?

Danielle Walsh ([00:43:19]):

I think any entrepreneur would probably agree that as a first-time entrepreneur, I think that if you knew how hard it will be you May 2nd think, I think you’d probably still go through it because it’s the hardest thing, but the most rewarding thing that you can do. Lessons learned. I think that it’s persistence. This is really a daily grind. This is not just about having a nice idea and then it all is happening. This, you’ve got to be consistent, and really persevere through many hurdles. I think that that’s not just about being consistent and persevering. You really need to be obsessed with the problem and obsessed with the customer. And I know it’s kind of an obvious answer, but it’s really, you can’t just state that I have an idea and I’m going to build it.

 

Danielle Walsh ([00:44:13]):

That’s always changing. You have to stick to that. You’re going to get a lot of people thinking that you’re doing something wrong. But as long as you are generating value for an identified problem in the market I think that what I first came to this role, I may have got feedback from could be an investor could be an advisor to say, you are on a wrong path here. And my first thing was to say, okay, maybe they’re right. No, if you, if you have more knowledge, because you are obsessing day in, day out with a customer in a part particular sector, you have insights that they do not have time to go this deep into. So, if you keep focusing on the problem and you keep looking at the technology that can help, not ever using technology for the sake of technology, but really using it for the problem at hand, that’s when you are having the return that you need which obviously then is around remaining focused.

Danielle Walsh ([00:45:09]):

It’s, you’ve got to keep the lights on and that’s the day in. And you obviously turn the lights on for night. You do, you’ll get a lot of inbound requests from certain organizations. Either your current customer that wants you to do a lot more or from different customers and or a person within that company that wants you to do a certain other area or use case. It’s very tempting to go into the other use case, but if it is not on the current goal and what the current product will be and the current features on offer, that’s again, where you can’t create a scalable technology company where you have a product. And then from there you can build and offer the solutions. I think remaining focused is a discipline needing and yet adaptability being really agile to not fall in love with your idea of maybe, but really keep focus on the market and to switch and be very quick to switch when needed.

Danielle Walsh ([00:46:09]):

And that can either be where you’ve seen a new need and you know, that you could literally pivot. An example of being agile and quickly is if you see not only a new aspect of technology that can be used because your customers have asked for something that they’ve now been revealed to the market. But on a version of a ChatGPT, if you can build that quickly, that’s not only helping your customer, but it’s also allowing your actual large language results from the background to receive more data, which is directly from your customer in your segment in your sector, which is fantastic. How do you quickly adapt to a market need and actually then focus on that whilst not getting distracted on the core thing for us, of course, it’s the backend of the data ingestion and remove that friction.

Danielle Walsh ([00:46:52]):

So it is playing between the two. But yeah, lots of lessons and I think that it’s a case of just trying to tune in and being time management. And really when you are when you’re producing results for customers and you are operating at a level that is generating the value that can scale globally and is scaling globally, you are welcoming the best talent and the best talent will come where you will learn from them. And as a team, you are obviously going to continue innovating and that’s where then becomes really rewarding.

Jaspal Singh ([00:47:31]):

Yeah, that’s a very good point. You mentioned about having obsession with the problem and I think the point you mentioned in the last how to attract the right team and right talent. My question will be how do you find the right co-founder, because that’s one of the challenge I see in lot of venture, a lot of venture fail because of the not a good team fit. So the founder could able to gel well. What is your secret, and can you share a little bit about your co-founder, how did you meet him and how you both balance each other?

Danielle Walsh ([00:48:06]):

Sure. for anyone, it’s obviously about compatibility. So, when you’re building a technology startup there are many different pieces that you need. And when you are first starting out, you don’t have the luxury of many resources. So, with me definitely a business person that can generate an idea or a strategy engage with customers, employees, investors. But then on the technical side, whilst I understand the technology, I’m definitely not a builder on technology. Who is going to compliment me as someone who goes very deep in terms of technology and what you need when you need it and who’s an executor. So whilst I’m out there getting the business, I need someone who is beside me who’s actually then executing and allowing me to have something to sell. So, I think that sometimes, you know, you may have two business people or two technical people, but for us it’s very complimentary because my co-founder, Dr. Pedro Baiz.

Danielle Walsh ([00:49:07]):

His 22 years obsessed around data ingestion and data science and how we can use the latest technology to pull in a lot of data that’s scattered and messy, generate insights and actions. Now, what he needs from me is customers and also problems. And he also needs feedback in terms of when I’m saying we need to go further on X era of the technology. Now what he’s feeding back to me is saying, Danielle, you’re crazy. You cannot push X amount to X customer at the moment. We’ve got to then move into another area and just focus on this feature. So I think having that complimentary nature is key. We’ve been really lucky. So we haven’t had any horror stories because, we because we’re so complimentary, I think Pedro, if Pedro had his way, he would not come to the office and just code away and just engage with his team and then, you know, be doing his research projects.

Danielle Walsh ([00:50:07]):

We obviously do because we have that engagement. But, if I had my probably viewers, you know, on the road and engagement with customers and, and people say it’s yeah, it’s been very positive. We actually met in the bank. So, I had the mandate where I had actually a draw reporting line to both the CDO, the Chief Digital Officer of the where we were building, which is where Pedro was, and then still in technology, investment banking. And there I really wanted to create a model to share the risk and return to transition transportation. The idea I had was actually to create a data bond. So, it was to blend data across the supply chain, whether it’s telcos energy vehicles, and monetize the insights to back then a shared data bond effectively.

Danielle Walsh ([00:50:55]):

now Pedro came onto the project. He obviously, he went, he knows how to go very deep on how to combine that data and also has a very deep understanding of the regulatory setting. So he’s the chair of is SOFA FinTech globally, sits on the carbon market panels very deep on that side. So the combination allowed us to go very deep. Obviously, the output was that we’re still monetizing data. There’s still dream by many industries, but you’re not, but it’s there that we realized that there was a big need still of combining that data to give insights across the supply chain. And yes, I quit initially I called in to be my advisor during Covid and we had lots of chats on the phone and then after a month he was like, this is a bit bigger than what I thought. Quit his job and join the party.

Jaspal Singh ([00:51:48]):

That’s amazing. it’s amazing to work with your co-founder and understand each other and like what you said, it has to be complimentary because then you can fill in the gap. You always love to meet people go out and he’s the one who stay in the office and love to code. So, it’s complimented to each other. The other big challenge for founder is, you know, you have good idea, you have good co-founder. The third biggest challenge is finding funding and raising funding is really hard especially for Cleantech Fund. And I would say you’ve done amazing job. I recently read news about you raised some funding from M1713 and planning to raise now a big next round. Can you share your personal experience to raise funding and like you picked the right co-founder, how to pick a right funding partner?

Danielle Walsh ([00:52:40]):

It is not easy. The market is the market’s tough. And that’s also great because you get challenged even further and only the companies that are going to have that longevity are going to win, which is fantastic. We were really lucky. So our first funding round, we got capital from three funds that have been substantial in terms of help. Two are mobility funds that are very focused within the industry. So their LPs all partners are future current customers. And they all really understand the go-to market product, which is fantastic. And then our lead in that round third one actually built the corporate VC of Coca-Cola and Henkel. So again, no inside out. And I think really reflecting on the support that we’ve had is the importance of you don’t just take capital.

Danielle Walsh ([00:53:42]):

This is one, a long-term partnership because they are with you. They’re joining your board. They are engaging with your strategy until you exit. So really choose smart capital where you get on. Because I think that, you know, just when you are working with someone as an employee, when you’re working someone as a partner, as an investor, then better be better to get on with them. And someone who really can provide much more than, than just capital. And yeah, really just tune in in terms of what you require as business. So some it really is contacts in the market for customers, others, it can be just strategic advice. And again, I think because if you have that trust and that confidence within your investor, especially as a CEO it can, it is a renowned to be a pretty lonely job because you are having to always, you know, keep a strong face between a customer or employee, right?

Danielle Walsh ([00:54:41]):

And typically also an investor. So if you have an existing investor say, I think I messed up, or I’m not sure about this area that we’re doing, or I got this feedback from a customer, what do you think? Or I’ve got also got an issue internally with a senior employee, I lost an employee. By having that really good relationship with your investor, you can grow much better as a business. And then of course create the better value that’s going to then come for the next round of investors as join, join the company. So yeah, smart capital is what I’d recommend.

Jaspal Singh ([00:55:14]):

I fully agree with you. It’s money is like a commodity these days. What you need is more than money. And finding those right strategic partner and smart money is important. And, what you said is very important. The entrepreneurial journey is very lonely. So, you need to have somebody where you can discuss, you can bounce off idea, you can’t go back to your team and share problem with them all the time at the same time. You can’t go back to your client. So you have to maintain a happy face and, and the only person you can go and talk about some problem is the investor.

Thank you so much, Danielle. I think the mantra you shared about finding passion, finding right co-founder and finding right funding partner, it’s really remarkable and really true. Now, this is my last question. You a little bit touch about that. How do you see or would like to see the world in 2030, in next 6 years, how you think things should be and what role clearly will play to make it happen? You mentioned about we are already thinking about generative AI and artificial intelligence to make customer pain much lesser. So what is your vision for next six years?

Danielle Walsh ([00:56:21]):

Well, I think that we won’t be there in terms of completely allowing our fleets to be net zero. I think 2030 is just around the corner. So I think that that probably will push out a bit. I think we’ll be a lot closer to decarbonizing our fleets or offsetting it by supporting other projects. I think that clearly will really be at the heart of providing the transparency needed across the supply chain to facilitate getting the highest ROI saving cost whilst reducing emissions and effectively doing more business, better business whilst also saving our planets. So I think really going into data transparency being the key here and us playing a very big role when it comes to road transportation.

Jaspal Singh ([00:57:08]):

Yeah, I think this should be the quote, everybody should use more business, better business and saving the planet. So that’s what you are trying to do with your clients and with your ideas. So thank you so much Danielle. I think I love this whole conversation. We have this custom, like when we end our conversation, we have this rapid fire question round because we know now your business side, your entrepreneurial side, now we know a little bit of your personal side. So if you’re ready, I’ll start with my questions.

Danielle Walsh ([00:57:36]):

Okay.

Jaspal Singh ([00:57:37]):

So my first question, if you are not in the transportation banking or law or technology space, what other profession you would’ve selected? I know there is a long list already.

Danielle Walsh ([00:57:48]):

Oh gosh. I think I would probably be involved in something around human connection. I find it fascinating. I think it’s the, one of the most interesting subjects is the connection with ourselves, with others and the strike of the right connection. I mean even changing ourselves and our health and everything around it. So, the reasoning behind it and how you actually find it would be some area there from the research to actually the practical side of implementing it.

Jaspal Singh ([00:58:20]):

So basically you’re trying to bring more transparency in human connection. So making it much more transparent. No, I love this point. Human connection. I think that’s what more important we are losing that. So we need somebody to bring that thing back. Now my second question, which is your favorite city in the world and why?

 

Danielle Walsh ([00:58:40]):

Oh gosh.

Jaspal Singh ([00:58:41]):

I know you travel a lot, so That’s a tricky one.

Danielle Walsh ([00:58:45]):

I think many people would agree I’m in this bag, but if I had to pick one it probably would be Tokyo. Yeah, Tokyo. So that’s fascinating blend of the ancient traditions and the futuristic innovations. It’s yeah, it’s a wonderful blend.

Jaspal Singh ([00:59:01]):

Yeah, it’s a beautiful city. It’s a beautiful city. The people are really amazing to see. And, and I would say from a transportation point of view, it’s one of the city with one of the best transportation in the world. Now my third question is which technology innovation you are very bullish on in the next five years?

Danielle Walsh ([00:59:18]):

Oof.

Jaspal Singh ([00:59:19]):

There are so many things happening.

Danielle Walsh ([00:59:21]):

Yes. I think really the rise of quantum computing in the next five years really it, it’s like switching from like a bicycle to a spaceship. And when it comes to the data processing side, which is what we need really mind bending possibilities ahead of us with this.

Jaspal Singh ([00:59:38]):

Great. that’s a good point because a lot of people are not talking about quantum computing. They talk about just the output, like, which is Generative AI, blockchain and all of that stuff. But the basic layer is quantum computing, and it’s going to change. I was recently attended one session and really fascinating to see how quantum computing can help you to solve a lot of problems, the challenge you face. Now my fourth question is what one thing do you wish you should have learned early in life?

Danielle Walsh ([01:00:08]):

I think the importance of resilience and the understanding that setbacks are not a roadblock for the soon,

Jaspal Singh ([01:00:17]):

I think that’s a lesson everybody should learn. Setbacks are not roadblock; it’s just preparing you to do better. So, so that’s a good, good advice. I, it’s, it’s learning for me, so thanks for sharing that. Now this is my last question. If you can change one thing in life, what would it be?

Danielle Walsh ([01:00:33]):

Oh I think having more time to have an even better balance when it comes to work and, and personal life. I think it’s, yeah, it’s very important having more time. So time management

Jaspal Singh ([01:00:47]):

Time management, like you mentioned earlier. That’s one of the lessons for entrepreneurs having a time management.

Great. thank you so much Daniel. I think I really loved your insight about how the energy transition space is using data and technology to make it easier and smoother and how clearly is helping a lot of clients. Congratulations on big funding news, on being among top 10 in mobility startup in Europe and then signing up a big client before this podcast. I think we need to do every month so that we can keep getting good news.

Danielle Walsh ([01:01:18]):

Thank you.

Jaspal Singh ([01:01:19]):

Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this podcast. If you like this episode, please don’t forget to give us a five-star rating as it’ll help us to spread our message. If you have any feedback or suggestion for this podcast, please feel free to reach out to us at info at mobility innovators.com. I look forward to see you next time. Thank you.