Mobility Innovators

Jaspal Singh [00:00:03]:

Welcome to the Mobility Innovators Podcast.

Jaspal Singh [00:00:10]:

Hello, everyone. I’m so happy to welcome all listeners from around the world to the Mobility Innovators Podcast. I’m your host, Jaspal Singh. Mobility Innovator Podcast, invite key innovators in transportation and logistics sector to share their thought about the key changes in sector, about their work and what is their forecast for the future.

Today, I’ll be speaking with an amazing innovator. He is a Chief Technology and Innovation Officer at EMT. He’s in charge of rolling out EMT’s innovative solution, like Smart Bus Madrid and pushing the MaaS deployment in Madrid. He has a long-lasting career in innovative digital projects in the private and public sectors. Previously to joining EMT Madrid, he was VP for Strategy and Growth at SAYME an IoT provider for smart cities. He was also the Chief of Staff of the Spanish Secretary of State for Telecommunications and Information Society leading the definition and roll-out of the Digital Agenda for Spain.

I’m so happy to welcome my good friend Juan Corro, Chief Technology and Innovation Officer, EMT Madrid. It’s now time to listen and learn.

Hello Juan thank you so much for joining us. It’s wonderful to have you on the show to share your experience with the listeners.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:01:23]:

Oh, very nice to see you and be with all your friends at here. Mobility innovators.

Jaspal Singh [00:01:29]:

Thank you so much. So today I’ll be spending time to learn more about you, your professional journey, the transit project you’re working on and your perspective on the innovation.

And to start with, I would like to ask you to share little more about yourself with our listeners. Also, are there any interesting facts about your career that are not on the LinkedIn?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:01:50]:

Well, the most important parts are away from the light in your life. You never say when we’re your first kiss, or what is said at the first site. Yeah, there are things in my LinkedIn, which are not there, which is probably related to my political vocation or aspirations and my political career, which has always been back and forth in my life. And which all started not a very early time in the university when I joined the debate club in the university, I like to discuss and to debate. So I joined the team from the university and we were the first public university who won an national championship, the national debate championship. After that, we went to the international championship in Spanish. It was in Latin America, and we were the first university winning the international championship of debate. That would be one of my top picks related to my background. And from then I was presented myself as a candidate, I was selected as the president of the student union at the university. And those things moves in the future.

Jaspal Singh [00:03:19]:

That’s great. Good to see that you are always from the college itself, you’re taking a leadership role, which you are doing right now at EMT as well, in the technologies.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:03:30]:

Well, one at the very end one realized somehow someday, what you are somehow good at. And what you, what do you feel yourself meaningful when you do something? And I find myself meaningful when I can serve to the common, to my neighborhoods, to my community. And that’s why I find myself in a very society, that’s why I’m not very good money.

Jaspal Singh [00:04:02]:

That’s good. You are good at connecting people. You’re good at connecting and serving people. And actually that’s part of my second question. You partly answer it, but I would like to know more.

You have more than 15 year of industry experience now, and you started your career in the telecommunications industry with ERZIA Technologies, but later you become a Chief of Staff to the Spanish’s Secretary of State for Telecommunications and Information Society. So I’m curious to know, why did you move to transit?

You partly mentioned you want to serve people, so it’s answer, but I am very curious to know why you move in transit. And how do you think your experience in public and private sector is helping you in the transit space?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:04:41]:

Well, I would say, it is very well linked. The whole story to make the long story short, the captain of that debate team was appointed Deputy Chief of the Staff of the Spanish President of the Conservative Party, which was at the prime minister, well president in Spain, but compare, it would be prime minister. So he was appointed Deputy Chief of Staff and see, and he asked me to join the cabinet for four months in a very specific period. So I jumped to Madrid for those four months, I was working in my hometown Santa. I get to know the really deep part of the political party and what the government. As I am a telecommunication engineer, they wanted me to join. And so they found this mixed place, which is similar to my place now, which is mainly technical with, but with some flavor of political vision or capabilities. And that’s how I became Chief of Staff at the secretary of the state, which was a very technical position, but with some political favor, and that was the story.

Jaspal Singh [00:06:00]:

And why transit.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:06:02]:

Why transit? because the mayor asked me to do that. I was talking to the mayor from Madrid and, they wanted to hire and to bring people with digital skills in the project. So I thought I was about to be in the digital office. He just launched and he told me. So I am here because of that. I was good at public sector. It’s something, I have a lot of experience and I find myself fluent in this type of environment. And I’m good at digital projects and skills, but I knew very little about transport from IT or Mobility, and two years afterward, I think I assure you that this is a fantastic time to be in mobility because everything is happening right now, right here.

Jaspal Singh [00:07:05]:

Yeah. I would say the right place right time. And the mayor did the right pick, picking somebody who understand technology and put them into transit because that’s what transit need. Now, more technology, more innovation.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:07:20]:

Huh, let’s see when it ends.

Jaspal Singh [00:07:24]:

Oh, I would say it’ll be a long journey and it’ll go upward and higher. So now I would like to start our conversation with future of mobility in Europe. You are a member of European Commission Multimodal Passenger Mobility Forum alongside 70 executives from all major transit operators. I would like to know more about your role on the committee, and also technology can help to shape future of mobility by better responding to customer experience and expectation.

How do you think technology and innovation will reshape the European mobility sector and Europe’s mobility future next 5 years? And what are some key changes we may see in next 5 years?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:08:04]:

Well, framing out. This is quite huge question. You just asked in a few words, and now we have to be provided to reply, but think about what are two major trends that Europe is fostering right now, you would say the European Green Deal, the green deal is top of the list. So we are living in a sustainable green revolution on top of a digital revolution. And if you put all together in the very center is mobility. Yeah. Because this specifically related to the electrification and reduce the carbon footprint for the whole system and enhance in everything we have with digital capabilities and opportunities to deliver better service, more efficient, to longer wide base of users. And that’s, what’s all about. So from that perspective is how technology will shape the future, is because with digital technologies, we can have some special things we could not make before.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:09:12]:

For example, multi-model journeys in big cities. Yeah, it’s a tough issue. You cannot deliver multi-modal, journeys easily. When you have free floating services, bike-sharing, car-sharing, E-scooters with, mass transit operators like Metro underground, or even our buses, we have more than 200 lines with more than 3000 stops. You cannot manage that complexity and what digital tools allow, they enhance and enable to reduce complexity for every single user. And that’s something that you technology is set, able to provide is to provide your specific needs satisfaction for every single user to enable multimodal trips. And that’s the magic tool. We have to deliver more mobility to more people in a wider sense.

Jaspal Singh [00:10:12]:

Well, that’s a great point. You mentioned about, we have so many modes, it’s only the technology, which can be a connector for all these modes, and we have to make more and more journey personal. You can’t just say, this is one offer, take it or leave it, but you have to cater it to the personal need of people serving from Point A to Point B.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:10:32]:

Yeah. It’s reduced complexity and that’s where detail to rules. If you start learning about complexity as a science, sometimes to reduce complexity, you have to add complexity to the system. Think about on internet, you have hundreds of millions of webpages, and, and you cannot manage where it is, how to find where is information. Yeah. And suddenly you add one more piece, which is called search, which is, could be Google, Bing or whatever search engine. And with more complexity brought by one more webpage, you are able to handle the whole internet. So we need those reduced complexity. How would be complexity reducer tools, thanks to that.

Jaspal Singh [00:11:23]:

Yeah, that’s a great point. You add, like adding one more layer to solve all other complexity under it.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:11:31]:

Yeah. To let people, manage the complexity, but you don’t reduce complexity. You make it more handy.

Jaspal Singh [00:11:37]:

Hand for people to manage it. That’s a great point. You actually mentioned about, European Green Deal and Madrid is one of the key player and Madrid has committed to achieving carbon and climate neutrality by 2050 and launch a new sustainable strategy for the city called Madrid 360 in September 2019. And the goal is to reduce capital’s polluting emission and transform the city into the sustainable city.

So I’m curious to know, how EMT Madrid will play a key role to achieve that goal, because you mentioned about that the sustainable mobility is a key component of the strategy. You cannot talk about green deal without talking about the clean mobility and, how technology and innovation concept will help to achieve the mission of Madrid 360.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:12:25]:

Well, we are living on humongous revolution in mobility here in Madrid and Madrid 360, which is a framework for the city has everything to do with us and EMT Madrid. Just to give you some figures, in the next four years, EMT Madrid, we are investing 100 million Euro only in electrification on the fleet. So bring in the fleet to electricity and building the infrastructure, which our need to provide such a service is a marvelous initiative. There is the largest investment ever we made in EMT. So we let’s say we have 100 percent in roles, which are millions of Euro. We are investing.

Jaspal Singh [00:13:15]:

Yeah. That, that’s a great point.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:13:18]:

And farther than that, we are bringing mobility, reducing, or making the complexity by handling with more information to the users, thanks to the services we are providing to everyone like information about the estimated time of arrival for every single bus, the level of ours, every single bus, and delivering that through our APIs, open APIs in mobility labs, which is our developers portal, but also through our application, like Madrid Mobility 360, which is our Mobility as a Service application. Yeah. Which is one of our top bets for this. But we are trying to solve the problem using all the tools we have at hand. So we are trying all the mobility, bringing all the opportunities and molds and see how can we figure out diversity for the future.

Jaspal Singh [00:14:16]:

Now, all these are very great point you mentioned, and we will be discussing some of them in detail in subsequent question about the mobility as a surveys and, the technology platform you’re building and working with other companies to solve these challenges. I’m also curious to know the transportation system in Madrid. The CRTM, which is the public transport authority of  Madrid region is managing all public and passenger transport services and EMT, primary operate city buses. You also operate cable cars by sharing parking system in the city, which is unique.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:14:53]:

Less popular services, which is the toll truck

Jaspal Singh [00:14:56]:

Toll truck. Yeah.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:14:57]:

Less popular. I don’t know why.

Jaspal Singh [00:15:01]:

Because people, people feel that it’s in the backend and you don’t want to call them. It’s you call them only when you are in trouble. And, Metro, which is a big player manage the Metro system. And you have a Metro Ligero, which is managing the light rail system. So Metro is different from other city because you have different players operating different systems.

So I want to understand what are the challenges faced by an operators, especially the bus operator, because in many city, the bus operator doesn’t get that kind of priority or a importance in the mobility hierarchy. How do you integrate your system with other agencies, for example, ticketing, service, planning, passenger information system? What kind of challenges you face there?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:15:43]:

Well, the challenges and the opportunities are the two sides of the same coin. So we have the opportunity to bring the public transfer for which is the consortium, the C RTM in the eighties. So that was an amazing success from the Madrid. So we put all under the same umbrella. So the consortium, the public transfer authority is delivering all the ticketing integration and enabling the information sharing scheme. So regarding to those specific points, ticketing, an integrated ticket with the same car, you can travel all around in all the modes in the transit modes, you can travel with the red card we have for the transport that is rule and managed by the consortium. They enforce us with all the information requirements to provide the same information to the same authority.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:16:43]:

So that’s something we got from granted of, we got that from the consortium where the Madrid town hall is vice person of the consortium. So, we are a big part of the scheme. So we feel the consortium not be that way. What are our problems is that that is not a monolithic model? If you look at London, for example, or other places, but you have a strong public body terms, London TfL, or others, you have a big one player, which have everything under them, and they can rule. So, those systems are all integrated a problem about dynamism. So, what we have is a more, let’s say, controversial system, where we are always trying to innovate metrics of, we trying to innovate the public authority, saying you have to go like that. You have to go like that. but at the very end, it’s more dynamic. Because we are all competitive, trying to be the best. Yeah. So the challenges are trying to do all, you can competing with other players in Madrid, trying to deliver at the very end the best service. So I’m happy about the current system, and the monolithic system tends to be slower, less dynamic, or you could even say lazy.

Jaspal Singh [00:18:12]:

Yeah. Like if you have monopoly, then the innovation stops. When you have to compete, then the innovation really happens. And you write, like, when you need to compete with other players and show what you’re doing best from other

Juan Corro Beseler [00:18:26]:

Yes. And that’s the that’s Madrid best, I think, ingredient for the success recipe, we are building in mobility to have everything integrated with several pieces, which are still competing and trying to be the best somehow.

Jaspal Singh [00:18:41]:

Yeah. Now I feel EMT will be one of the best players in the city.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:18:46]:

We are competing. So we go to the gym every day, three months

Jaspal Singh [00:18:50]:

Which is good. Don’t you stay fit.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:18:53]:

That does it.

Jaspal Singh [00:18:54]:

So my next question is about which a lot of people dislike discussing it’s about pandemic. And especially when you are a technology and innovation officer in a big public transport company, when the lockdown began, there was suddenly high demand to implement IT project in a short period of time, you must had a similar experience. I can imagine. Now, hopefully we are kind of at the end of a tunnel, we are seeing things are settling down. Things are opening up. So I can ask you this question, like looking back, how do you see that EMT method has transformed in last two year? And what are the key learning from that process?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:19:32]:

Well, for me, uh, I have an image or a vision or a metaphor I use for understanding better this. The Noah’s Ark that the big shape from the Bible were where Noah’s brought a couple of members of every single animal species and in the world, yes. To save them from the flood. And we have that vision or that image. And, and we say always that, when did Noah start building the arc? Oh, when it was not raining, because when it started rain, its rain, you could not build an Arc at all. So that what happened with the pandemic, we had to sail with the ships, with the tools, with the IT, with the technology and with the innovation we already had in place.

Jaspal Singh [00:20:26]:

Yeah.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:20:27]:

So for us the main lesson, we could remove cash for our it, because we were the first credit card enabled the whole fleet. Yes. Two years before. So we were able to remove the cost because we had ways of the contactless payment in the whole fleet. We could able to deliver occupancy levels in all of our bases because we were for two years testing, occupancy, sensor, and algorithms to see how it was to deliver. And we were already launching that Mobility as a Service trial. So our key finding is there is a day when you are called and you are not, you have no time to prepare. So let’s better be prepared every single day.

Jaspal Singh [00:21:17]:

Amazing. In fact, during my research, I saw one of your presentations and I saw that image. So I was thinking to ask you about, like, why that image and I understood. So how did you get the clue of be ready before the rain start? How did you get those clues that you have to be ready before this, like you mentioned about payment system and all.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:21:38]:

You need remain hungry to innovate and to test everything and to try to deliver the best service ever. For example, we are now trying to think twice or looking at the future of our buses. And we are trying to see how video analytics and other on the edge technologies, and how to deliver better services and information. So we are testing inhouse, what is going on out there and see how new technologies can fit us. So we are like little kids trying to play around with everything we see outside.

Jaspal Singh [00:22:21]:

That’s a great point to mention about, in fact, I have a lot of these questions subsequently, which is about your future projects. Now let’s talk about, one of your key projects, which you mentioned about Mobility as a Service app in Madrid, which is called MaaS Madrid. And, and you were way ahead, you released that app in 2019 itself. So can you tell more about the current feature and the level of this app, and do you feel it was successful in meeting its objective, and, if you have any success metrics to share, because a lot of cities are implementing, so how they can learn from your experience.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:22:58]:

Madrid mobility 360, which is the second version of that Mobility as a Service initiative, we launched that early in 2019, and it was MaaS Madrid – Mobility as Service Madrid. And now we rebranded to this framework, Madrid 360 strategy. So we wanted to let’s say follow the global framework and study for the city, because this is a tool for the city. So we were branded that with Madrid mobility 360 and where we put in place the multimodal trip planner, which was a key feature from this second version. And we already integrated some capabilities to use the application, not only for information, but to traveling the buses, to pay on the parking lots we have on our parking’s and also to use Bikes.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:23:53]:

The bike are in scheme here in Madrid. So, in this current phase, we launched that and we found how difficult it is to deliver. It’s really tough because when you build a digital system on top of many digital and legacy system, the buses, the bikes, the parking, and the identity subsystem, the payment method, the QR engine, and so on. So far, you struggle to have availability on the system. So it’s been a nightmare to deliver on time and on quality, that system and the users. They are used to Google or that same level of quality in their experience. So you are investing a tiny, tiny budget, and they are comparing to Google maps and say this works, not that fine. And can you compare please with my own mates, not with yeah.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:24:58]:

A giant called American Silicon Valley hero. Yeah. so how is it going? It’s been really, really difficult. I cannot say many more, really, really, really, really, really difficult experience, because you need to provide reliability and user experience and to enhance the services. And to bring users to the system, you are starting to do with a public transport operator, which is our domain to deliver detail service in a very competitive way, which is out of your comfort zone. Yeah, you are not good at that. You are good at bringing the buses every day on time on the street but trying to be very detailed to be all a commercial and competing in a commercial shape, it is something you are introduced to, and you have to learn how to do it. So I would say since the new, this new Madrid mobility 360 launch, we have learned a lot, due to all the mistakes and failures and problems we found.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:26:07]:

And, and we have learned a lot. And I think at the very end, it was a great initiative to have this Madrid Mobility 360. We are investing heavily on having a new wave, a third wave, our third version of this Mobility as a Service application. And we expect to have this at the end of this year, we have learned a lot. I will take the same, Noah’s Ark idea that we are testing on real life on real experience, how this Mobility as a Service feature and the environment looks like so we can make up better decisions. And that’s where we found that the principle problem, that the integration problem and other complexities we found all along.

Jaspal Singh [00:26:53]:

That’s great. You rightly mentioned it’s not easy. And, the customer expectation is very high these days. Like even a small key glitch, people can make a big noise about that. So meeting that customer expectation is becoming more and more difficult. And, you rightly mentioned that transit agency focuses to make sure the buses are on time, rather than making sure they have best UX design, or I would say, now you have to take care of both. You have to make sure your buses are time and you also have to make sure your app look very good.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:27:27]:

Yeah. But I have 9,000 people working on the buses to be on time and I have 13 people working.

Jaspal Singh [00:27:39]:

Yeah. So that’s, I don’t know. Who can be more efficient, probably the 13 versus 9,000 you are using.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:27:48]:

Well, people are much more satisfied and happier with the buses than with the application right now, but we will improve.

Jaspal Singh [00:27:56]:

That’s a spirit. That’s what you mentioned. Always stay hungry. You need to be hungry, always to innovate and always humble to learn. Never shy away saying it’s not working. Or there are some issues, but it’s always open to say, there is a problem we will solve it.

So as a follow up to my previous question, in some of the platform, you mentioned that the MaaS is not for mass market. I’m very curious. Why did you said that, and you also advocated for seven key principle for sustainable MaaS. You said

• It must be user-centric, which is true
• It should be fair and transparent
• It should be non-discriminating ecosystem
• It should be inclusive
• It should be sharing users for users
• It should have data sharing, and
• It should offer a safe and sustainable mobility

You also highlighted that the MaaS can help to fill a gap in the mobility services that authority hadn’t previously noticed and shared the concept of governance by design. I mean, these are amazing concept you mentioned here, uh, stating the real user-centric experience for governance. Please see if you can elaborate further, because these all are great points. You mentioned and share some key lessons for other city considering implementing the MaaS.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:29:13]:

Yes. this is a good example, how on when you can learn by doing, and it’s very difficult to real make decisions from the ivory tower. So what happened to us? We are one of the largest mobility operators here in Madrid, along with Metro. So we’ve been approached by many mobility as a service platforms to integrate our buses within their applications. So we had that side of the coin. And on the other hand, we have, our Mobility as a Service platform at Mobility 360, where we want to integrate, other operators, not only EMT Madrid. So we found ourselves in a place where we have to decide from the operator perspective, where to be integrated in which platforms are we going to say, Yes.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:30:14]:

Are we going to integrate with Google, Citymapper, Moovit, or any other platform, are we going to be integrated there or not? And if so, what are the principles or the basis to integrate that? And on the same page as platform, what kind of operators we want to integrate and how are we going to behave with those operators, because here we have somehow a deadlock where mobility operators are scared to be integrated through platforms because they don’t want to have an intermediary who can lead their customer Away. And somehow kidnap the users in a digital space and bringing them back and forth. As we saw before, let’s say in the hotels, we had those problems and we learn how strong booking.com can be managing and dealing with the hotels owners.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:31:21]:

So, we have that deadlock. So the platform, they cannot deliver the value because they don’t have the operators and the operators don’t want to have the platforms on top, having the front desk for the retail users. So that was deadlock. So the platform they need, but they don’t, they cannot, and the operators, other way around. So we found ourselves that we need some kind of principle based approach to solve that dead lock. Yeah. So we drafted those seven principles where, which we have to stick on them on both sides. So I had to write down principle. I had to accept, seems fair for me from the greater viewpoint and also from the platform viewpoint. So that’s where we draft those principles. One of the most difficult parts where selling users. So when we integrate in our platform to operators, we let the operators to reach the customer in the digital platform.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:32:31]:

And when we, as operator are integrated within a platform, we want to be able to reach the users through that platform. And having any data sharing in the scheme was also tricky. But we learned that you can arrange some data sharing in the scheme, if you do it on purpose. That is to say, I as public transport operator, I don’t need all the data from a Mobility as a Service platform, but for me, the origin destination metrics are crucial. So, that is aggregated data. It could be monthly delivered, and that’s something that every single platform is willing to share with you, because it will help me to be other plan my network. Yes and it will not damage or harm their commercial interests from the platform. So, sharing users and having data sharing schemes on purpose were two key takeaways from our experience being on both sides of the table.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:33:39]:

And that was how we brought those seven principles for sustainable MaaS, because we believe that unless we break that deadlock, we will not be able to deliver Mobility as a Service successfully, which is by the way, the case globally, nobody had delivered very successful Mobility as a Service system. Nowhere. Yeah, I agree. And the second concept you brought in the question was government by the sign. and the whole question is the whole concept we brought in governance by design is related to this digital nature. That winner takes it all. Yeah. The winner takes it though. So if you are a platform, a digital platform, the first digital provider takes the biggest part of the market. It’s a very strong digital competition. So one, two or, three players takes 90% or more of the market.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:34:44]:

So you are afraid that a free rider puts with amazing user experience, or even with some tricky approaches or techniques, they can be the first detail platform for your mobility. Yeah. With the other day Paris, we were in autonomy, the secretary general for Polis network, they were saying that users prefer to use E-scooter instead of walking, which is something Google maps is doing today is not a nice idea. If we are going for more sustainable mobility, we need to bring people for more active and sustainable modes, not other way around. So a free rider or let’s say, a player who has other interests,  but different from the public goals are very difficult to handle if they get to that number one position.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:35:47]:

And that’s the concept where governance by design was all about. So we need to put the pieces in mobility, the digital pieces related to you ticketing. We are talking in that commission group, we are talking about the ticketing, how we open tickets for everything platform, so you can easily buy those tickets. Okay, let’s open those tickets, but we have to take her that if any single big player at very end delivers an amazing digital expert and immobility is able to be governed by the public goals. So we shouldn’t put in place, pieces with have no that detail capabilities of being over, which is similar or inspired by privacy, by the same concept where it is very difficult build, or to deploy privacy capabilities from legacy system, which were not thought with privacy in mind that were privacy by the same concept is all about. So you have to think on privacy from the very beginning of the design. So you are able to deliver privacy into our system. And it’s very difficult to add a tiny layer on top of that to deliver privacy. It should be the same immobility with governance, because this is top number one priority for cities to have proper mobility, sustainable mobility. And we need to the places with the upper paid, tools, which is go over then on top,

Jaspal Singh [00:37:20]:

You mentioned, I mean, that’s tons of knowledge in last 10 minute, what you share. And I really like this quote you mentioned, which is kidnapping the customer in the digital space. And lot of operators are worried about that. I really like your approach about starting with the principle rather than start with talking about the technology or APIs and all those kind of stuff, because that can be taken care of. But what is more important is what are the core principle and what public goal you will serve? Like the companies can have their own incentive. You don’t mind like you take care of that, but those incentives should align with the public goals. So I really like what you mentioned about the seven principle. And I would say I haven’t heard any other city doing that. So big congratulations to you.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:38:09]:

Wow. The principle are, I like the wheels. We can invent it several time, but they will be rounded. So you can have the same principle applied to every single city. And maybe we can have an Alliance, a global Alliance for sustainable MaaS and bring those seven principles to life. In other shape, for example, I was appointed the president of the Mobility as a Service commission in the National Association for public transport, and we made this same exercise at national level, and we brought four principles for national agreements. So we now have, let’s say a national wide principles, which are only four, but still four is better than nothing. Yeah. Because they frame the issue, which is how to align legitimate, private commercial interest, along with the key goal goals for the public needs that the mobility has inherit.

Jaspal Singh [00:39:15]:

Yeah. That’s amazing. In fact, that’s what should be the starting point to work with these players, is to align everything towards the public goals rather than aligning the technology and, others business model. Like a lot of cities are worried about business model, but I feel that will be taken care of if you take care

Juan Corro Beseler [00:39:35]:

Of, no, it will not. It will not. Okay. My forecast is that will not. And that’s another question you drop, which is not for the mass market, because it haven’t happened anywhere. Yeah.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:39:49]:

And we’ve been here talking about Mobility as a service for quite a long time, and nobody had success on bring in business models, sustainable business model there. And, and my whole thing is, there will not be market. Here we are talking about intermediary costs. So I am a digital layer. So I pay, I get some money for every single ticket I sell. Yeah. But it doesn’t seem that selling 1.5 Euro tickets, which is my single trip ticket in EMT. Madrid will make you rich as far. Maybe, maybe,

Jaspal Singh [00:40:31]:

Maybe if I sell a billion ticket, probably yes.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:40:35]:

Well, it doesn’t look like that, that tremendous. So, having commission on tickets is hardly to say that will be a profitable business. It will be, it could be profitable to have that commission on very expensive trips, like taxi or takes Uber or on-demand or hailing application. I think that is not something you want to foster and to deliver globally, which is the first option is very expensive options. No, come on. So for me, having commission for tickets, that’s not look like that’s is going to be very profitable. So we have still two options. One is having some kind of green public or sustainable vouchers or credits or whatever you call that. So, yeah, you pay for the carbon footprint you avoid when you have some green credits on top.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:41:33]:

So it’s more related to sustainability at the very end of public and the very end, some kind of public or certain goals and market and revenues, or we are paying with data personal data and influence on that personal data. So the crossroad, now, if I see that tickets is not the way and commissioned tickets is whether we are going for more green, sustainable commoner, market green credits, carbon credits, and so on and so far, or we are going to be a Facebook alike or Google alike, or any other data driven platform, which is all about personal data and not in the consumers to set, to buy what others wants to, to sell. And I think that is a risky place where I will not recommend us to follow.

Jaspal Singh [00:42:23]:

I agree. I think the first option seems quite likely and possible having those green miles and, carbon credit compensation for those, which if you see Tesla’s making money through that.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:42:35]:

Why is making yeah. It’s the only way Tesla is making money is because they are selling, carbon credits. Yeah. Maybe we will have a mixture at the end will not be that pure. But I see the risk of trying to go after the business model. I really don’t believe it will happen, and in the meanwhile, delivering a new digital wallet garden for big players, who will at the blur rule, if they are not well govern on government, by the governance, by the not in place you will, your cities will be ruled by an algorithm design somewhere else.

Jaspal Singh [00:43:19]:

That’s a great point to now actually move to the next question, which is about ticketing. And it’s a very hot topic right now in public transportation. You rightly mentioned EMT Madrid implemented the EMT pay platform in early 2019 way ahead from other people they’re promoting bank card and mobile payment system. So this must be very useful during the pandemic. Like you mentioned, you didn’t worry about stopping the cash payment because you already have something to fall back. What are some of the innovative initiative in ticketing, such as EMV and open loop payment system. And like you mentioned, how do you see the future of single and physical ticket? Like we will see they will disappear and, and who will rule the world in coming days?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:44:04]:

Well, how we say that, having visa transit ready back in developed by EMT and have that technology on board of our fleet and having that technology over in our backend was amazing, useful for very useful during the pandemic. And it’s delivering amazingly well. We are very happy to have that onboard. And by the way, we are very open to partner and license those technology to third cities. And we are talking with a couple of cities to deliver such technology, because one of the points we have seen here is that many times public transport or transport operators, we are, all the time developing again and again, same technologies each and everyone. And that’s a very inefficient way to provide that. So many times I develop something in Madrid, my MaaS application platform, booking engine, and London does the same or Paris.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:45:12]:

They try to do the same. They haven’t done that yet, but so we are somehow the ahead and investing heavily on new technology, which are roughly the same. And it would better to some more Alliance or, may pack up our efforts to get some critical mass, to be able to deliver in a better sense of with lower cost and better quality. And that’s something we learn from EMV, credit card payments in our buses. And we are trying to foster to other public or private operators in the Spain or beyond. It’s something that we are trying to push that line, which is something important for us and regarding the future of the ticketing. We also enable QR codes in our fleet.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:46:06]:

We have installed in more than 1,500 buses. We have roughly 2,100 buses already, but in 1,600 buses, we have already installed a QR called scanner. Okay. So, we can read QR codes on board. And we see that as a great opportunity to have easily multimodal or cross selling public transport tickets, because if you get to a long-distance station or, airport or a train station, and you can have printed on your ticket, the QR call, and you can jump easily to our bus, it would be seamless. So, we see that QR code for those specific, or even you enter in the hotel in the center of Madrid, and you get a ticket in your car from when you check in the hotel.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:47:11]:

So you are able to use your daily ticket or travel ticket or system pass, or three days pass or whatever. It would be something very humbly to make easier for the users to move in the train. So we, we see that in the past or any public transport or any public mean and we see that as an opportunity, the QR code to have cross selling those mobility capabilities to other segments. And the other part, we see in the future, but it’s harder to forecast or to materialize is account based ticketing or similar approach. That would be something we would like to explore, but it’s not that easy. And it’s more on the PTA, the consortium hand we have to see, but what is for sure clear crystal for me now is that there are no longer mobility operators or new mobility operators on one side and public transport or transit operator on the other side. And we have the elephant in the room is the private car. Yeah. So we have to have something to help us manage the whole three, because it all will be public transport, only new mobility only, and the public cars, and will be there because it makes sense for many people for their daily needs to have their private card. So we have to merge all together to make that more efficient. And that’s where maybe account based ticket or multimodal ticketing or subscription or models

Jaspal Singh [00:48:55]:

Can help,

Juan Corro Beseler [00:48:56]:

Can help. We will try. And when we fail and we will learn something and we will share here with you and with the Mobility Innovators listeners.

Jaspal Singh [00:49:06]:

You mentioned about the experiment and trying new thing. And actually that’s my next question. EMT is one of the very few transit agency, which are testing blockchain and face recognition technology and launched two pilot in 2019.

– First project was the blockchain application for public transport payments in collaboration with Banco Santander and Vottun.

– And the second project was for biometric payments for buses with Santander, Mastercard and Saffe.

I would like to know how these projects are progressing. And, and like you mentioned, what are your views on blockchain and facial recognition technology? In fact, we did a podcast on blockchain and mobility, and there were a lot of interesting usecases we discover. I would love to learn from your experience. What do you think about this technology and how EMT me is implementing them?

Juan Corro Beseler [00:49:58]:

Starting for the face recognition we made the pilot, and we learn, how to do that. And we discontinued the test. So we didn’t scale it up. I would like to share why we have several approaches, but the first thing we realized, and we are some something thinking that that’s a common ground or, a safe ground for us is we don’t want personal video face images or streams to be broadcast out of the bus. So what we first have thought is every single thing we are going to explore, we don’t want to build a new big brother or alike. So all the processing should be on board. That’s something that we are really thinking on. So that’s what we are testing some edge computing capabilities, because we really think that we should avoid having all this.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:51:07]:

We are installing six cameras yeah. In every single bus, think about having all those cameras stream to a central place, or you can really follow up everyone in the city to make a big product. So that’s the first question we didn’t like was to stream video out of the, or images or personal images there. And the second one was, it’s a nice feature for those who like, and enjoy, because the main feature of face recognition is, you can have an account based ticketing yeah. Or purchase tickets. We have having anything with you. You can be on the beach. We don’t have a beach in Madrid, beach but think about that. You have a beach, and you’re in your swimming clothes with nothing in your pockets and you can travel easily.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:52:01]:

Yeah. In the bus, that’s something amazing. And you will enjoy that but you can be very happy, but at the same time, I have to place a camera pointing on the face of 99% of the users, which are not going to use that feature. Yeah. So it has externalities, negative externalities, such as system, which can be reducing the speed of their own boarding, because you have to let think about, okay, you put it aside and you open something, so it see you. And so it will slow down the check-in or, the boarding in the bus, or it will affect in a negative way to other users would will say, oh, this’s camera that are looking at my face. And they are processing my face to see if I am on their database.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:52:56]:

I don’t like that. So it has externalities. We didn’t see that they are that the advantages are strong enough to pay off those negative externalities. Yeah. So it’s so all about proportionality. If you think about, face recognition is an amazing technology, but has a lot of negative externalities and risk, and you have to handle with proportionality. And what we have found is that we don’t see right now face recognition proportional to pay 1.5 euros. And at the very end, even if you go to the beach, come on, you will take your mobile phone with you, or I’m sure you’ll, nobody is going without it’s a smartphone. Yeah. So bring your smartphone and pay with that. And so we didn’t see that as a way forward because of those reflection. I certain and the second was blockchain.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:54:03]:

We have tried several approaches for blockchain applications. You know, blockchain is technology, which is better used in places where you cannot trust everyone. It’s a tool to enhance trust worthy in low trust systems. If I don’t really trust someone, maybe we can use a blockchain to have clear transparency of the transactions and obligations of the parts if we don’t see. So it brings up, it adds trust on the system with our giving cost, which is processing and technology. We have tried that for payments and, and we don’t see a higher value compared to credit card or, travel, transit card or cash. So they are not that common. It requires very high end and costly technology.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:55:15]:

It’s for the very happy few. So we don’t see that for payments, compared to any detailed platform payment or any credit card payments or cars, or transit, cards. Yeah. Which are very, they are very well. they have a huge customer base. So we don’t see specifically blockchain for payment now just to share our reflection. And we have also tried blockchains for identity. Okay. Sovereign identity, blockchain is something we have already explore, but detail sovereign identity with blockchain is to say, because I know you have listeners in mobility innovation, which are top of the list in technology, but I will try to think that maybe one or two are not that aware of the trends. So for those two or three, who they don’t understand that much, the technology, sovereign identity with blockchain means that I one have my identity in a given space in the blockchain and I can serve, but my personal information to other players in that sphere, which is, this is me.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:56:41]:

This is my phone number. This is my email, or any other record I have in my identity. So they can use that for a given access or, a given purpose. And I can remove that information on my will, not on your will. That is to say, I give you my email to log into any event you are promoting. Okay. I give you my email, you put there. And when I want, I can assist a sovereign entity remove that information to, from your system, and you are not able to retain that information. Yeah. Okay. That’s good. When you want to be, identify or deal with people, you don’t trust that much. But for me as a public transport operator or a mobility service platform, I don’t feel, if users want to delete their account or cancel their account, they can cancel, but I cannot have this. Now I give you my number. Now I removed you the number. So we couldn’t find a place we’re having data, but data severity is better to remove the account.

Jaspal Singh [00:57:52]:

Interesting.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:57:52]:

So if you want to log in, log in if want, if you want to cancel, cancel, but don’t mess me up.

Jaspal Singh [00:57:59]:

No, that’s a right approach. And I love the approach, which you mentioned is to experiment everything, but at the end of the day, you need to compare the benefit with the external factor and the cost involved. And if the benefit is not overweight or, cover those cost and those negative factors, make no sense to go towards that. But at the same time, Explore.

Juan Corro Beseler [00:58:27]:

Yeah. Just to, to be a bit more positive, I would like and enjoy testing blockchain application. I see blockchain a strong place or a very green field to play with in this new mobility scenario. Yeah. When you have the cars and you have new mobility operators and you have carbon credits and you have public transport there with so many players, small, big private, public, individual and commercial. Maybe there, we could find that the way to pay the green credits and the benefits could be in a blockchain where you can deliver that on a trusted way. Maybe there, I will see that, but it’s not today.

Jaspal Singh [00:59:15]:

You mentioned a great one. Actually, we covered these use cases in one of a conversation on blockchain about these green miles and creating a common platform for new mobility player and all, not for ticketing, because we see it’s not worth to, like you said, 1.5 Euro ticket, and do you really need that much of technology, or it can be solved by credit card, debit card, which is already there secure and can manage, use it for something which is more important and more, require more complex, critical solution, more critical. That’s great.

So you, you rightly mentioned about that. I love that. Now I want to cover about which you mentioned earlier that, EMT Madrid currently operate one of the Europe’s largest fleet of electric buses. you invested more than 100 million Euro you mentioned, and now have more than 200 buses in the fleet.

Jaspal Singh [01:00:07]:

And the goal is to have 25% of the fleet fully electric by 2025. You know what I see that these electric buses are fully connected vehicle and provide lots of data at the same time, they require are more planning in term of charging, range management, status of charge and all. So I have two questions for you. One is, these electric buses will be managed by the new IT system or you are modifying your existing it infrastructure. And secondly, I also noticed that EMT is procuring buses from different manufacturers. Like you have from BYD, you have buses from Irizar and other players as well. Do you see any challenge in integrating these buses with the EMT backend system? What kind of a measures you are taking to ensure standardization? Because if you have multiple operators or multiple manufacturers, how you make sure they are integrating well as a fleet,

Juan Corro Beseler [01:01:04]:

Not easy

Jaspal Singh [01:01:08]:

It is not. I can imagine

Juan Corro Beseler [01:01:10]:

It is not easy. Yeah. Bringing things by parts, what is more difficult for us, and we are not ready there to deliver. And we are really testing and trying to way, is all the technology you need to deliver, the charging for the electrical fleet in huge depots. We have depots with 200 – 300 – 400 buses, which is not the most common case for the other operators as they rely on the smaller depots. But we think that it’s more efficient, or at least for us, it’s more efficient to deliver from five or six big depots with hundreds of buses there. So having a smart, changing capabilities for having the whole fleet ready to deliver the miles they have, or the kilometers they have to deliver on a daily basis is integrate your planning system to your charging system.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:02:09]:

And, moving all that around because the charging is slower than going for gas or petrol. So now that is new, and we have to test how to do that. And we will need people, very talented people from the electricity and the smart grid and, smart charting technologies to deliver something which is viable. And we don’t have in EMT. We don’t have that top talent to deliver. And we are really see, we are investing more than 100 million euros in a depot, full electrical Depot, and with a smart charging to be one of the our top priorities, that will be the first and the second challenge. We have smart charging on how to make the planning and the charging ready. And the second will be the compatibility between the chargers and the buses. Yeah. We saw that in the laptops, we saw that in the smartphones.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:03:04]:

So having different cables and charger for every single phone you buy, it’s a nightmare. Yeah. So we will have to push for charges, which are able to deliver electricity to every single type of bus. And it’s something which is not ready in place. And we are struggling to have the manufacturer of those chargers on board. They are not there. They are willing to sell you a specific charger for specific buses to have you in that wallet card. And that is difficult. I would say, regard the other IT, the credit card or the console for the buses, the ticketing system as we put, install that on top of the bus, we don’t feel that that will be a great problem because we are delivering the same experience with the several types of buses we have now with diesel, which are no longer this year is the last year.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:04:03]:

We will have any diesel in the fleet, gas or electricity or hydrogen. We are bringing on top. We will put all those add-ins add on it, and they will deliver the same credit card, QR cameras and everything ready. So we are not worried about that. But the other part you mentioned is that all the telemetric on the telemetry and, that information from the bus to have a connected bus, and that’s a challenge, that’s something challenging. And we see the two main trends. The, we see that manufacturer as looking at those digital capabilities, part of the revenue model in the future. So they want you to pay for a license or subscription or revenue to be paid along with the bus for years, to have those over the air updates or so. They are willing to assign BYD or Mercedes or any other manufacturer.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:05:12]:

I want you to be locked in my system and the manufacturers are willing to go with that way. So the only way you can install telemetric is with my system and the software is my system. So I see that trend coming and the other way around is how we are able to escalate the layers. So you have the connected vehicle with some capabilities to be connected with several telemetric or IOTs, and then delivered to a software value. We can manage somehow that information to be useful for the public transport, but also for the manufacturer, because I’m fine with the manufacturer to look after their buses, to reduce maintenance costs. That is fine for me. I have no problem, but we will have to go again for that insulation, at least remove the grids or the wallet garden, they are willing you to stay.

Jaspal Singh [01:06:12]:

It’s like you mentioned, it’s not a easy task to handle, and nobody has answer to it. Because there are vested interest. I would say like these manufacturers have their own priority. They want to have control over their data. So they are not ready to share that. But yeah, you rightly mentioned the issues with the charging infrastructure, which is not standardized. The issue with telematics and the buses, which is still not standardized. And the cities are facing another challenge of just implementing new buses or bring inducting new buses in the fleet. So many of people don’t get time to even think about these issues they’re just procuring and they they’re not even thinking about it.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:06:54]:

Yeah, so, but the most advanced surely are listening to your podcast and maybe we can help share in that place, our videos.

Jaspal Singh [01:07:06]:

That’s the idea. And also now about my next question, I want to ask you your thoughts on On-Demand transit and demand response buses. Many cities around the world are in the reducing these flexible service. In addition to the fixed line to provide service in low density area, late-night trips covering some of the routes, they cannot serve with the larger buses.

So EMT Madrid also launched on-demand service, Smart Bus Madrid in July 2020. Can you share more about this project and do you really think that the on demand buses is the future and they can complement to the main services? if yes, what are your plan for the expansion?

Juan Corro Beseler [01:07:51]:

Well, we made that, that pilot for six months in 2020 during the heavy pandemic to people going back and to the hospital. So they can be safer with tracing, contact tracing in place with less kilometers in the main lines and, and able to deliver faster and safer trips for we going for people going back and forth to the hospitals. So that was the intention of that pilot. And we learned how to do that. And we saw the limitation on how to operate such a system and we learned a lot. So December 2021, we launched, a tender to procure the technology needed to roll out that system on a scale. So we are now ending that procurement process.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:08:49]:

Yeah. And, and before summer we will have a smart, a regular smart boost zone in the north of Madrid probably running. So we learned, how to do that. And we are going to deliver such a service in Madrid, not as a pilot, but a permanent zone, at least the, for the next couple of years and see how it goes, what are, what is our vision regarding the On-demand transit or demand bus? I also use another image, which is a microwave. I see the On-Demand bus is a microwave. I don’t know, if and will remember, but in the, in the late 70’s or 80’s, the microwave was launched on the larger scale. And many advertisement was saying, you will not need an oven. You will not need a fire because the microwave will solve everything with this tiny and in feature, you will be able to have smarter and funnier and better kitchen all about, okay.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:10:07]:

They, they overpromised, they overpromised, and they didn’t deliver. Okay. That’s true. Okay. That didn’t happen. I have my oven, I have my fire. And, but at the very end, every one of us, we all have a microwave. Yes. So it didn’t change everything in your kitchen, but it delivered enough value to remain and to stay. And that’s where we see on-demand bus. They will deliver the value in a certain place, maybe for heating milk or, I’m not complaining. It is fine for me so we will find a place or a heating where on-demand buses will deliver the value, with those low density or large areas or low serve areas, which, standard regular lines are not being able to deliver. So we have bought our microwave and we’ll invite you.

Jaspal Singh [01:11:23]:

No, actually this is one of the best analogy I ever heard. And, in fact, I’m just thinking like my wife bought one of the costliest microwave because she promised me that she will bake cake someday and she will do wonderful thing and it never happened. So I used to blame her, you know, for spending money. So I wish public agencies will find the microwave, which suits the requirement and use it. Well, it’s a best analogy. And you rightly mentioned, there will be scope for having these micro transit or microwaves in the transit agencies, but, how to use it optimally and how much you should spend money. Like if you are not looking to expand too much, so you should have a minimal technology. If you are really looking to expand this service, then you should go really deep into that.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:12:18]:

Yeah. That, that’s why we, we have procured that and we will broadly it out and see how it goes.

Jaspal Singh [01:12:26]:

Probably connect with you next couple of year, again, to learn more about your experience. Now I can keep chatting with you for hours and hours. Like I’m enjoying so much, but I promise this is my last question. And it’s about startups and innovation. And the EMT Madrid is a key partner of Madrid in Motion, a city of Madrid initiative to engage startup and mobility. And currently you have posted a challenge on how can advertising onboard buses be improved. So user received, targeted and relevant message. I’m very curious. Can you share a little more about the challenge and how do you believe startup can assist agencies in addressing some of these most pressing issues? You mentioned some of them in the conversation, but there are many other issues. How can startup help transit agencies?

Juan Corro Beseler [01:13:17]:

In that specific challenge, we launch, thank to Madrid in Motion and the Innovation Hub for Mobility we have here in Madrid. I have to explain why – advertisement is the third income line on our budget. So having digital advertisement, which can improve the profit of those spaces and having less hassle of installing all that in the buses could be very good for us. Even the only reducing costs and keeping the income will be amazing for us. That’s why we launched that challenge how to utilize, how to figure out how to do that. We got a winner for that talent, and we had spent six months thinking on the future of the bus, and how we can deliver that advertisement experience and how to make it and I cannot tell my much more because something, but we found that certain regulatory requirements can stop or inhibit delivering such innovation on the fleet, but we are going to do several tests and pilots to move a bit forward on that scenario because we have a final reflection.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:14:55]:

It was written the other day, an article for a magazine detail magazine, quite important in Spain. And I was explaining all about the cameras. We have, the electronics we have for more the sensors and the QR and now the DRT on-demand and how little the users aware of this technology. And maybe I am the IT guy. Okay. chief technology and innovation officer here. Sometimes we want to be good referee in the soccer field. So we want to be invisible, but maybe we went too far because people, they don’t realize how much technology and innovation we are delivering to the transit. And we should maybe try to bring back some sign and bright and wow effect to the transit. That’s something I want all the innovators out there to help us make the transit great again, make the transit wow. Again, make the transit modern and fancy. Again, we are less sexy than we need to be the backbone of the mobility in the future.

Jaspal Singh [01:16:21]:

That’s very true. And you likely mentioned that we are investing, we are doing so much, but sometime it’s like a referee, which is invisible, who’s controlling the whole match, but it’s invisible. And, you greatly mention about that advertising revenue, which is third largest. In fact, one of the guys he mentioned to me that average user spent 10 minutes on Facebook and Facebook advertising revenues is like hundreds of billion dollars. And we spend hundred and 20 minutes, at least in the transit network, average user, you know, you take four trips, so how can we monetize that 120 minute when people are in the transit. But yeah, that’s a great point. You mentioned about bringing those innovation and bringing forward that, like I said, we had such an interesting conversation about technology, mobility, public transit. I really love it.

But to end this podcast, there is a round of a rapid-fire question round. And in which I’ll ask you,

Juan Corro Beseler [01:17:18]:

You said the other one was the last one.

Jaspal Singh [01:17:22]:

That was, that was like the formal one. Now we are talking about you. This rapid question round is basically five questions I ask you and just want some quick response from your side. And if you’re ready, I’ll ask my first question.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:17:38]:

Yeah. I’m not very good at quick answer, but I’m sorry.

Jaspal Singh [01:17:42]:

I love you are, I would say a most experienced debate person I ever met. So if you were not in telecommunication or transit sector, what other profession you would have selected

Juan Corro Beseler [01:17:54]:

Lawyer

Jaspal Singh [01:17:55]:

Lawyer? I can see that, you’re so good in putting forward the argument analogies and all. So I can imagine that. And any reason.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:18:07]:

I like abstract, construct with us as a society, happier.

Jaspal Singh [01:18:15]:

That’s a great point. Great service. You have traveled around the world, which is your favorite city in the world.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:18:21]:

My hometown Santander, I am a conservative. I think my people, my place, not very innovative in that sense.

Jaspal Singh [01:18:32]:

Okay. So now this is a tough question for you, which city has the best transit network in the world?

Juan Corro Beseler [01:18:38]:

The disclaimer comes first. I work for a transit I see. So everything I say afterwards is compromised. Somehow, I would say Madrid

Jaspal Singh [01:18:52]:

And to be honest, I, I take it because it is one of the good systems in the world. I love what the transportation system is doing.

Your favorite startup in the mobility sector.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:19:04]:

Wow. I like many of them, I would say those dealing with autonomous vehicle and, self-driving vehicles are my top list, but they haven’t delivered yet. So yeah, I would prefer not to pick up one, but they are doing amazing things. And we expect very good things in the near future. There, I would expect not to have a big brother from the private sector, which would be even more the public one, but let’s see. But I would say one of the autonomous vehicles, we have one very nice here, which is cargo doing amazing things here in Madrid, but there are many their autonomous vehicles would be my top of the list,

Jaspal Singh [01:19:53]:

I love them because, I mean, they are, like, you already mentioned they are not fully yet proven, but what they are developing can be a game changer in the future.

And my last question is, if you could change one thing about your life, what would it be?

Juan Corro Beseler [01:20:10]:

Oh, come on. I wish I have not such a power. Otherwise, I will be regretting the whole thing. I am happy to be a humble human. that’s human.

Jaspal Singh [01:20:26]:

That’s great. You know and that’s I can see when, in our conversation that city and eagerness to learn and eagerness to experiment and that come from the great leader.

So, thank you so much, Juan, for your insightful comment as always, I really enjoyed this conversation and learn a lot from your experience.

Juan Corro Beseler [01:20:43]:

Experience. Me too. Thank you for inviting me.